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Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

  • 1.  Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-16-2017 06:00 PM
    Submitter's message Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider Document Name : NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Description NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision Submitter : Jason Snider Group : Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements Folder : Standards Date submitted : 2017-02-16 09:59:35 Revision : 1


  • 2.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-16-2017 06:08 PM
    Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"? 4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted... ?Susan Ulery?   Susan H. Ulery, CEO Ph: 970-589-2707 www.assureconsulting.us   On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider < jsnider@xxxxxxx > wrote: Submitter's message Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider Document Name : NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Description NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision Submitter : Jason Snider Group : Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements Folder : Standards Date submitted : 2017-02-16 09:59:35 Revision : 1


  • 3.  RE: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-16-2017 06:21 PM




    Hi Susan,
     
    We did discuss and agree to change that in the standard at the meeting. The original ballot to approve of this version did pass and we due to ANSI’s deadline (we actually
    were already past it!) we had to publish the standard that passed the ballot. Now we have time to make the change from the meeting. I will be setting up a meeting to go over all the places that this change needs to happen.


    Thanks,
    Rachel

     
    From: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
    On Behalf Of Susan Ulery
    Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:07 PM
    To: Snider, Jason
    Cc: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded
     


    Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"?



     


    4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered
    drug is extracted...


     



    ? Susan Ulery ?

     













     


    Susan H. Ulery, CEO

    Ph:
    970-589-2707

    www.assureconsulting.us



     












     

    On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider < jsnider@xxxxxxx > wrote:

    Submitter's message
    Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document!

    -- Jason Snider




    Document Name :

    NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis)





    Description
    NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis)
    Download Latest Revision





    Submitter : Jason Snider
    Group : Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements
    Folder : Standards
    Date submitted : 2017-02-16 09:59:35
    Revision : 1






     







  • 4.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-19-2017 12:14 AM





    Dear Rachel & Susan;
    Has it been agreed to change the reference to 'powdered drug' unanimously or is this under consideration?  It is not uncommon, historically speaking, to use that terminology, pharmacognostically speaking, as far as I know.  So, I am not sure that it should
    or needs to be changed, unless it is the consensus of the committee, that it should because it is what the DS Industry feels is more 'accurate'?


    I have one other comment, regarding the section 4.2.1 as well:


    "4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted in an ultrasonic bath at room temperature for 30 minutes with 4 mL of a methanol and water mixture (80:20). The suspension is filtered and the residue washed twice with
    2 mL methanol. The filtrate and washings are combined and brought up to volume with methanol in a 20 mL volumetric flask. One mL of the solution is transferred into a small sample vial. This is the test solution. The solution is sensitive to light and heat
    and shall be stored in the refrigerator in an amber vial. Hydro alcohol extracts can be applied to the plate directly. Dried extracts can be dissolved in an appropriate solvent (e.g. methanol) and stirred and applied to the plate directly."



    I find the use of a 20 mL volumetric flask to be an uncommon size to find & use, which could make performing this procedure difficult to reproduce exactly as written.  My question is, is it necessary to reproduce exactly as written or is it acceptable
    to modify accordingly to accomplish the same goal?  If not, then I wonder if it should be changed to something like a 25 mL vf & adjust the quantities to accomplish the same or similar concentration?


    Just thought I would point this out but it is certainly not a show stopper & since this is a qualitative method, it really shouldn't matter that much?  Any comments?


    Sidney


    From: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Brooker, Rachel <rbrooker@xxxxxxx>
    Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 10:20:38 AM
    To: Susan Ulery; Snider, Jason
    Cc: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: RE: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded
     



    Hi Susan,
     
    We did discuss and agree to change that in the standard at the meeting. The original ballot to approve of this version did pass and we due to ANSI’s deadline (we actually
    were already past it!) we had to publish the standard that passed the ballot. Now we have time to make the change from the meeting. I will be setting up a meeting to go over all the places that this change needs to happen.


    Thanks,
    Rachel

     
    From: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
    On Behalf Of Susan Ulery
    Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:07 PM
    To: Snider, Jason
    Cc: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded
     


    Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"?



     


    4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered
    drug is extracted...


     



    ? Susan Ulery ?

     













     


    Susan H. Ulery, CEO

    Ph:
    970-589-2707

    www.assureconsulting.us



     












     

    On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider < jsnider@xxxxxxx > wrote:

    Submitter's message
    Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document!

    -- Jason Snider




    Document Name :

    NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis)





    Description
    NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis)
    Download Latest Revision





    Submitter : Jason Snider
    Group : Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements
    Folder : Standards
    Date submitted : 2017-02-16 09:59:35
    Revision : 1






     








  • 5.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-19-2017 07:20 AM
    While the term drug has been used historically, it is a formal category of regulated goods and herbs that have not been formally approved as drugs are not drugs from a regulatory perspective. It is not an appropriate term to use in dietary supplement standards. Its presence in the original submission was due to Europeans who did the HPTLC and commonly refer to herbs as drugs. Unfortunately it was not caught in the editorial process.?Roy Roy Upton American Herbal Pharmacopoeia


  • 6.  RE: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-20-2017 01:25 PM




    Good Morning Sidney,
     
    The JC voted in the last meeting to make this change where it is necessary. Part of this TG is to determine where it is necessary.

     
    Thanks,
    Rachel

     


    From: Sidney Sudberg [mailto:sidney@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

    Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 7:14 PM
    To: Brooker, Rachel; Susan Ulery; Snider, Jason
    Cc: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded


     

    Dear Rachel & Susan;
    Has it been agreed to change the reference to 'powdered drug' unanimously or is this under consideration?  It is not uncommon, historically speaking, to use that terminology, pharmacognostically
    speaking, as far as I know.  So, I am not sure that it should or needs to be changed, unless it is the consensus of the committee, that it should because it is what the DS Industry feels is more 'accurate'?
     
    I have one other comment, regarding the section 4.2.1 as well:
     
    "4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted in an ultrasonic bath at room temperature for 30 minutes with 4 mL of a methanol and water mixture (80:20). The suspension
    is filtered and the residue washed twice with 2 mL methanol. The filtrate and washings are combined and brought up to volume with methanol in a 20 mL volumetric flask. One mL of the solution is transferred into a small sample vial. This is the test solution.
    The solution is sensitive to light and heat and shall be stored in the refrigerator in an amber vial. Hydro alcohol extracts can be applied to the plate directly. Dried extracts can be dissolved in an appropriate solvent (e.g. methanol) and stirred and applied
    to the plate directly."
     
    I find the use of a 20 mL volumetric flask to be an uncommon size to find & use, which could make performing this procedure difficult to reproduce exactly as written.  My question is, is it necessary
    to reproduce exactly as written or is it acceptable to modify accordingly to accomplish the same goal?  If not, then I wonder if it should be changed to something like a 25 mL vf & adjust the quantities to accomplish the same or similar concentration?
     
    Just thought I would point this out but it is certainly not a show stopper & since this is a qualitative method, it really shouldn't matter that much?  Any comments?
     
    Sidney





    From:
    ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx < ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > on behalf of Brooker, Rachel < rbrooker@xxxxxxx >
    Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 10:20:38 AM
    To: Susan Ulery; Snider, Jason
    Cc: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: RE: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded


     



    Hi Susan,
     
    We did discuss and agree to change that in the standard at the meeting. The original ballot to approve of this version did pass and we due to ANSI’s deadline (we actually
    were already past it!) we had to publish the standard that passed the ballot. Now we have time to make the change from the meeting. I will be setting up a meeting to go over all the places that this change needs to happen.


    Thanks,
    Rachel

     
    From:
    ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ mailto:ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ]
    On Behalf Of Susan Ulery
    Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:07 PM
    To: Snider, Jason
    Cc: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded
     


    Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"?



     


    4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered
    drug is extracted...


     



    ? Susan Ulery ?

     













     


    Susan H. Ulery, CEO

    Ph:
    970-589-2707

    www.assureconsulting.us



     












     

    On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider < jsnider@xxxxxxx > wrote:

    Submitter's message
    Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document!

    -- Jason Snider




    Document Name :

    NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis)







    Description
    NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis)
    Download Latest Revision







    Submitter : Jason Snider
    Group : Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements
    Folder : Standards
    Date submitted : 2017-02-16 09:59:35
    Revision : 1






     








  • 7.  RE: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-20-2017 03:04 PM
      |   view attached
    Regarding use of the word “drug” - This issue of terminology has been discussed extensively in the past at these meetings and it has always been decided to remove “drug” and replace it with “powdered root” in the case of a powdered root. (I note that “herb” is not a clear description to use as a replacement for “drug” since “herb” is commonly understood to refer to aerial parts.)   Most users of this monograph are not going to understand goldenseal to be a “drug.” In addition, by law and regulation it is not factually a “drug” at least in the US and Canada, although it may be a “drug” in the EU.   So for clarity and to avoid factual inaccuracy it has always been decided, in every prior conversation on this topic, to remove “drug” universally and replace it with the accurate descriptors. I sincerely hope the same decision will be made in this case.           Cortex Scientific Botanicals PO Box 3316 Central Point, OR 97502 541-973-2252 office 805-459-0616 cell   This email transmission, and any documents, files, and previous or subsequent e-mail messages attached to it may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient or authorized to receive for the intended recipient and recognized as such by the sender, you may not read, print, retain, use, copy, distribute or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and destroy the original message and all copies, including any attachments.   From: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Brooker, Rachel Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 5:25 AM To: Sidney Sudberg <sidney@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; Susan Ulery <susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx>; Snider, Jason <jsnider@xxxxxxx> Cc: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded   Good Morning Sidney,   The JC voted in the last meeting to make this change where it is necessary. Part of this TG is to determine where it is necessary.   Thanks, Rachel   From: Sidney Sudberg [mailto:sidney@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 7:14 PM To: Brooker, Rachel; Susan Ulery; Snider, Jason Cc: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded   Dear Rachel & Susan; Has it been agreed to change the reference to 'powdered drug' unanimously or is this under consideration?  It is not uncommon, historically speaking, to use that terminology, pharmacognostically speaking, as far as I know.  So, I am not sure that it should or needs to be changed, unless it is the consensus of the committee, that it should because it is what the DS Industry feels is more 'accurate'?   I have one other comment, regarding the section 4.2.1 as well:   "4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted in an ultrasonic bath at room temperature for 30 minutes with 4 mL of a methanol and water mixture (80:20). The suspension is filtered and the residue washed twice with 2 mL methanol. The filtrate and washings are combined and brought up to volume with methanol in a 20 mL volumetric flask. One mL of the solution is transferred into a small sample vial. This is the test solution. The solution is sensitive to light and heat and shall be stored in the refrigerator in an amber vial. Hydro alcohol extracts can be applied to the plate directly. Dried extracts can be dissolved in an appropriate solvent (e.g. methanol) and stirred and applied to the plate directly."   I find the use of a 20 mL volumetric flask to be an uncommon size to find & use, which could make performing this procedure difficult to reproduce exactly as written.  My question is, is it necessary to reproduce exactly as written or is it acceptable to modify accordingly to accomplish the same goal?  If not, then I wonder if it should be changed to something like a 25 mL vf & adjust the quantities to accomplish the same or similar concentration?   Just thought I would point this out but it is certainly not a show stopper & since this is a qualitative method, it really shouldn't matter that much?  Any comments?   Sidney From: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx < ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > on behalf of Brooker, Rachel < rbrooker@xxxxxxx > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 10:20:38 AM To: Susan Ulery; Snider, Jason Cc: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded   Hi Susan,   We did discuss and agree to change that in the standard at the meeting. The original ballot to approve of this version did pass and we due to ANSI’s deadline (we actually were already past it!) we had to publish the standard that passed the ballot. Now we have time to make the change from the meeting. I will be setting up a meeting to go over all the places that this change needs to happen. Thanks, Rachel   From: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ mailto:ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ] On Behalf Of Susan Ulery Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:07 PM To: Snider, Jason Cc: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded   Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"?   4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted...   ? Susan Ulery ?     Susan H. Ulery, CEO Ph: 970-589-2707 www.assureconsulting.us     On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider < jsnider@xxxxxxx > wrote: Submitter's message Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider Document Name : NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Description NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision Submitter : Jason Snider Group : Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements Folder : Standards Date submitted : 2017-02-16 09:59:35 Revision : 1  


  • 8.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-17-2017 05:54 AM
    Yes it should be herb.?Roy Upton On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery <susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"? 4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted... ?Susan Ulery? Susan H. Ulery, CEO Ph: 970-589-2707 www.assureconsulting.us On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider <jsnider@xxxxxxx> wrote: *Submitter's message* Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/document.php?document_id=36447 > ------------------------------ *Description* NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/download.php/36447/latest/NSF_321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf > ------------------------------ *Submitter*: Jason Snider *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements *Folder*: Standards *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35 *Revision*: 1


  • 9.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-18-2017 04:28 AM
    The correct name of the plant is  Hydrastis canadensis L.  In think it needs to be consistent throughout the standard Sometimes it is listed without the author L. Trish Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 www.botanicalliaisons.com Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always. — Mathatma Gandh On Feb 16, 2017, at 10:45 PM, herbal@xxxxxxx wrote: Yes it should be herb.?Roy Upton On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery < susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx > wrote: Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of drug to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be herb ? 4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted... ?Susan Ulery? Susan H. Ulery, CEO Ph: 970-589-2707 www.assureconsulting.us On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider <jsnider@xxxxxxx> wrote: *Submitter's message* Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/document.php?document_id=36447 > ------------------------------ *Description* NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/download.php/36447/latest/NSF_321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf > ------------------------------ *Submitter*: Jason Snider *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements *Folder*: Standards *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35 *Revision*: 1


  • 10.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-18-2017 05:17 AM
    Hi Trish, you are of course correct in that the designation of a species is incomplete and unverifiable without the author. However it is my understanding that convention holds that the binominal without the authority is appropriate and preferred once the authority had been established. Although I am not able to reference the source for this standard at this time I do recall a time when Michael McGuffin provided it. Respectfully, Steven On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Trish Flaster < tflastersprint@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > wrote: The correct name of the plant is  Hydrastis canadensis L.  In think it needs to be consistent throughout the standard Sometimes it is listed without the author L. Trish Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 www.botanicalliaisons.com "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always." — Mathatma Gandh On Feb 16, 2017, at 10:45 PM, herbal@xxxxxxx wrote: Yes it should be herb.—Roy Upton On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery < susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx > wrote: Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"? 4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted... ?Susan Ulery? Susan H. Ulery, CEO Ph: 970-589-2707 www.assureconsulting.us On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider < jsnider@xxxxxxx > wrote: *Submitter's message* Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) < http://standards.nsf.org/ apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ document.php?document_id=36447 > ------------------------------ *Description* NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision < http://standards.nsf.org/ apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ download.php/36447/latest/NSF_ 321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf > ------------------------------ *Submitter*: Jason Snider *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements *Folder*: Standards *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35 *Revision*: 1


  • 11.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-18-2017 06:08 AM
    This change was made and commented on in the 2000 St. Louis) edition of the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature and is retained in the current (2011) renamed ICN. From the Preface of the 2000 text: "Among the non-mandatory (explanatory or advisory) matter added or modified at St. Louis, let us point out the reworded Art. 46.1, which downgrades author citation after scientific names, from a necessary condition for a name to be "accurate and complete" to a mere complement that "may be desirable", particularly in taxonomic and nomenclatural publications." Sent from my iPhone On Feb 17, 2017, at 21:17, Steven D < sjdentali@xxxxxxxxx > wrote: Hi Trish, you are of course correct in that the designation of a species is incomplete and unverifiable without the author. However it is my understanding that convention holds that the binominal without the authority is appropriate and preferred once the authority had been established. Although I am not able to reference the source for this standard at this time I do recall a time when Michael McGuffin provided it. Respectfully, Steven On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Trish Flaster < tflastersprint@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > wrote: The correct name of the plant is  Hydrastis canadensis L.  In think it needs to be consistent throughout the standard Sometimes it is listed without the author L. Trish Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 www.botanicalliaisons.com "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always." — Mathatma Gandh On Feb 16, 2017, at 10:45 PM, herbal@xxxxxxx wrote: Yes it should be herb.—Roy Upton On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery < susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx > wrote: Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"? 4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted... ?Susan Ulery? Susan H. Ulery, CEO Ph: 970-589-2707 www.assureconsulting.us On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider < jsnider@xxxxxxx > wrote: *Submitter's message* Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) < http://standards.nsf.org/ apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ document.php?document_id=36447 > ------------------------------ *Description* NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision < http://standards.nsf.org/ apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ download.php/36447/latest/NSF_ 321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf > ------------------------------ *Submitter*: Jason Snider *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements *Folder*: Standards *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35 *Revision*: 1


  • 12.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-18-2017 02:31 PM
    In addition to Steven's comment, the botanical authority is established in the AHP monograph and the ANSI standard under section 4.1 which establishes the basis of the standard leaving no ambivalence or uncertainty of the identity of the herb in question. The authority need not be included every time the genus and species are given. While this, and often inclusion of the family, may be convention with purely botanical-centric journals, it inserts unnecessary verbage that distracts from ease of reading, while contributing no added clarity of what is being addressed. With goldenseal, no unclarity would exist even if the authority were left out as there is no debate regarding the botanical traceability of H. canadensis.?Roy 4.1  AHP Pharmacopoeial Standard Goldenseal Root (ydrastis canadensis L.): Goldenseal root consists of the fresh or dried roots and rhizomes of Hydrastis canadensis L. containing not less than 2.0% hydrastine (C21H21NO6) and 2.5% berberine (C20H18NO4) calculated on a dry weight basis. On Fri Feb 17 21:17:09 2017, Steven D <sjdentali@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Trish, you are of course correct in that the designation of a species is incomplete and unverifiable without the author. However it is my understanding that convention holds that the binominal without the authority is appropriate and preferred once the authority had been established. Although I am not able to reference the source for this standard at this time I do recall a time when Michael McGuffin provided it. Respectfully, Steven On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Trish Flaster <tflastersprint@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: The correct name of the plant is  Hydrastis canadensis L.  In think it needs to be consistent throughout the standard Sometimes it is listed without the author L. Trish Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 <(303)%20494-1555> www.botanicalliaisons.com "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always." ? Mathatma Gandh On Feb 16, 2017, at 10:45 PM, herbal@xxxxxxx wrote: Yes it should be herb.?Roy Upton On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery <susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"? 4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted... ?Susan Ulery? Susan H. Ulery, CEO Ph: 970-589-2707 <(970)%20589-2707> www.assureconsulting.us On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider <jsnider@xxxxxxx> wrote: *Submitter's message* Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ document.php?document_id=36447> ------------------------------ *Description* NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ download.php/36447/latest/NSF_321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf> ------------------------------ *Submitter*: Jason Snider *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements *Folder*: Standards *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35 *Revision*: 1


  • 13.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-18-2017 05:15 PM
    Ii am saying is that it is inconsistent throughout the text  yes it is stated in AHP and ANSI but sometimes it is with L. and sometimes not Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 www.botanicalliaisons.com Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always. — Mathatma Gandh On Feb 18, 2017, at 7:22 AM, herbal@xxxxxxx wrote: In addition to Steven's comment, the botanical authority is established in the AHP monograph and the ANSI standard under section 4.1 which establishes the basis of the standard leaving no ambivalence or uncertainty of the identity of the herb in question. The authority need not be included every time the genus and species are given. While this, and often inclusion of the family, may be convention with purely botanical-centric journals, it inserts unnecessary verbage that distracts from ease of reading, while contributing no added clarity of what is being addressed. With goldenseal, no unclarity would exist even if the authority were left out as there is no debate regarding the botanical traceability of H. canadensis.?Roy 4.1 AHP Pharmacopoeial Standard Goldenseal  Root  (ydrastis  canadensis L.):  Goldenseal  root  consists  of  the  fresh  or  dried  roots  and rhizomes  of Hydrastis  canadensis  L.  containing  not  less  than  2.0%  hydrastine  (C21H21NO6)  and  2.5%  berberine (C20H18NO4) calculated on a dry weight basis. On Fri Feb 17 21:17:09 2017, Steven D < sjdentali@xxxxxxxxx > wrote: Hi Trish, you are of course correct in that the designation of a species is incomplete and unverifiable without the author. However it is my understanding that convention holds that the binominal without the authority is appropriate and preferred once the authority had been established. Although I am not able to reference the source for this standard at this time I do recall a time when Michael McGuffin provided it. Respectfully, Steven On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Trish Flaster < tflastersprint@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: The correct name of the plant is  Hydrastis canadensis L.  In think it needs to be consistent throughout the standard Sometimes it is listed without the author L. Trish Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 <(303)%20494-1555> www.botanicalliaisons.com Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always. ? Mathatma Gandh On Feb 16, 2017, at 10:45 PM, herbal@xxxxxxx wrote: Yes it should be herb.?Roy Upton On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery <susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of drug to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be herb ? 4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted... ?Susan Ulery? Susan H. Ulery, CEO Ph: 970-589-2707 <(970)%20589-2707> www.assureconsulting.us On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider <jsnider@xxxxxxx> wrote: *Submitter's message* Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) <http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ document.php?document_id=36447> ------------------------------ *Description* NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision <http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ download.php/36447/latest/NSF_321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf> ------------------------------ *Submitter*: Jason Snider *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements *Folder*: Standards *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35 *Revision*: 1


  • 14.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-18-2017 05:21 PM
    one last thought, if we are setting a standard maybe we should use the best practices anyway. Yes it can be more abbreviated on other docuemnts but if this is the standard….. Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 www.botanicalliaisons.com Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always. — Mathatma Gandh On Feb 18, 2017, at 7:22 AM, herbal@xxxxxxx wrote: In addition to Steven's comment, the botanical authority is established in the AHP monograph and the ANSI standard under section 4.1 which establishes the basis of the standard leaving no ambivalence or uncertainty of the identity of the herb in question. The authority need not be included every time the genus and species are given. While this, and often inclusion of the family, may be convention with purely botanical-centric journals, it inserts unnecessary verbage that distracts from ease of reading, while contributing no added clarity of what is being addressed. With goldenseal, no unclarity would exist even if the authority were left out as there is no debate regarding the botanical traceability of H. canadensis.?Roy 4.1 AHP Pharmacopoeial Standard Goldenseal  Root  (ydrastis  canadensis L.):  Goldenseal  root  consists  of  the  fresh  or  dried  roots  and rhizomes  of Hydrastis  canadensis  L.  containing  not  less than  2.0%  hydrastine  (C21H21NO6)  and  2.5%  berberine (C20H18NO4) calculated on a dry weight basis. On Fri Feb 17 21:17:09 2017, Steven D < sjdentali@xxxxxxxxx > wrote: Hi Trish, you are of course correct in that the designation of a species is incomplete and unverifiable without the author. However it is my understanding that convention holds that the binominal without the authority is appropriate and preferred once the authority had been established. Although I am not able to reference the source for this standard at this time I do recall a time when Michael McGuffin provided it. Respectfully, Steven On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Trish Flaster < tflastersprint@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: The correct name of the plant is  Hydrastis canadensis L.  In think it needs to be consistent throughout the standard Sometimes it is listed without the author L. Trish Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 <(303)%20494-1555> www.botanicalliaisons.com Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always. ? Mathatma Gandh On Feb 16, 2017, at 10:45 PM,   herbal@xxxxxxx   wrote: Yes it should be herb.?Roy Upton On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery < susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx > wrote: Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of drug to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be herb ? 4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted... ?Susan Ulery? Susan H. Ulery, CEO Ph: 970-589-2707 <(970)%20589-2707> www.assureconsulting.us On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider <jsnider@xxxxxxx> wrote: *Submitter's message* Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) <http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ document.php?document_id=36447> ------------------------------ *Description* NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision <http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ download.php/36447/latest/NSF_321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf> ------------------------------ *Submitter*: Jason Snider *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements *Folder*: Standards *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35 *Revision*: 1


  • 15.  RE: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-18-2017 05:31 PM
      |   view attached




    Hi again,
    My note in the middle of this discussion seems to have been missed so I’m sending it again.
     
    Here’s what the 2000 (St. Louis) edition of the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature presented to call attention to the formal shift from required to optional use of
    authors’ names:
     
    “Among the non-mandatory (explanatory or advisory) matter added or modified at St. Louis, let us point out the reworded Art. 46.1, which downgrades
    author citation after scientific names, from a necessary condition for a name to be ‘accurate and complete’ to a mere complement that ‘may be desirable’, particularly in taxonomic and nomenclatural publications.”


    I checked the current (2011) edition of the renamed ICN and this same language is still in place.
     
    Our document is not a taxonomic or nomenclatural publication so it seems we could make a decision to refrain from using “L.” in this species name. I agree with Trish though
    (in a separate email outside of this string) that the main focus should be on consistency: we should pick one and stick to it; though I can also argue, even though use of the author’s name here is not formally a best practice under the ICN, for a slight inconsistency
    – i.e., call it “ Hydrastis canadensis L.” the first time and “ Hydrastis canadensis ” each additional time.
     
    Michael
     

    Michael McGuffin
    President
    American Herbal Products Association
    www.ahpa.org
    8630 Fenton Street, Suite 918 Silver Spring MD 20910
    MD Phone:
    301.588.1171 x201
    CA Phone:
    310.745.8401
    Please mark your calendar to attend AHPA Events at the Natural Products Expo West show!


    Annual Breakfast Meeting, Thursday, March 9 th from 7:30 am – Noon Member Reception, Friday, March 10 th from 6 pm – 8 pm
    Please click on this

    link for a complete list of all AHPA’s committee meetings. 

    30+ years of working for you!


    The information contained in this communication, including attachments, may be confidential and legally privileged and its use is limited to the intended recipient.
    In addition, this email does not constitute legal advice. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its contents is strictly prohibited. If
    you have received this message in error please advise the sender and delete the original message and all copies from your computer system, including any attachments.

     


    From: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
    On Behalf Of Trish Flaster
    Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 9:21 AM
    To: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded


     
    one last thought, if we are setting a standard maybe we should use the best practices anyway. Yes it can be more abbreviated on other docuemnts but if this is the standard…..

     


     











    Trish Flaster
    Executive Director
    Botanical Liaisons, LLC
    1180 Crestmoor Drive
    Boulder, CO 80303
    303-494-1555
    www.botanicalliaisons.com


    "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always."
    — Mathatma Gandh








     

     

     

     



    On Feb 18, 2017, at 7:22 AM,
    herbal@xxxxxxx wrote:

     

    In addition to Steven's comment, the botanical authority is established in the AHP monograph and the ANSI standard under section 4.1 which establishes the basis of the standard
    leaving no ambivalence or uncertainty of the identity of the herb in question. The authority need not be included every time the genus and species are given. While this, and often inclusion of the family, may be convention with purely botanical-centric journals,
    it inserts unnecessary verbage that distracts from ease of reading, while contributing no added clarity of what is being addressed. With goldenseal, no unclarity would exist even if the authority were left out as there is no debate regarding the botanical
    traceability of H. canadensis.—Roy


    4.1
    AHP Pharmacopoeial Standard
    Goldenseal  Root  (ydrastis  canadensis L.):  Goldenseal  root  consists  of  the  fresh  or  dried  roots  and rhizomes  of Hydrastis  canadensis  L.  containing  not  less than  2.0%  hydrastine  (C21H21NO6)  and  2.5%  berberine (C20H18NO4) calculated on
    a dry weight basis.

    On Fri Feb 17 21:17:09 2017, Steven D < sjdentali@xxxxxxxxx > wrote:




    Hi Trish, you are of course correct in that the designation of a species is
    incomplete and unverifiable without the author. However it is my
    understanding that convention holds that the binominal without the
    authority is appropriate and preferred once the authority had been
    established. Although I am not able to reference the source for this
    standard at this time I do recall a time when Michael McGuffin provided it.
    Respectfully, Steven

    On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Trish Flaster < tflastersprint@xxxxxxxxxxxxx



    wrote:





    The correct name of the plant is  Hydrastis canadensis L.  In think it
    needs to be consistent throughout the standard

    Sometimes it is listed without the author L.

    Trish
    Trish Flaster
    Executive Director
    Botanical Liaisons, LLC
    1180 Crestmoor Drive
    Boulder, CO 80303
    303-494-1555 <(303)%20494-1555>
    www.botanicalliaisons.com

    "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers,
    and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall.
    Always."
    ? Mathatma Gandh





    On Feb 16, 2017, at 10:45 PM,   herbal@xxxxxxx   wrote:

    Yes it should be herb.?Roy Upton

    On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery < susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx > wrote:

    Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to
    describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"?


    4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is
    extracted...

    ?Susan Ulery?



    Susan H. Ulery, CEO
    Ph: 970-589-2707 <(970)%20589-2707>
    www.assureconsulting.us



    On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider < jsnider@xxxxxxx > wrote:

    *Submitter's message*
    Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees
    will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below.
    Thank you for your contributions to this document!
    -- Jason Snider
    *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis)
    < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/
    document.php?document_id=36447 >
    ------------------------------
    *Description*
    NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis)
    Download Latest Revision
    < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/
    download.php/36447/latest/NSF_321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf >
    ------------------------------
    *Submitter*: Jason Snider
    *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements
    *Folder*: Standards
    *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35
    *Revision*: 1





     







  • 16.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-18-2017 06:06 PM
      |   view attached
    This suggested convention is what I have seen (and use personally) as most common in industry and the standard for USP and others. On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Michael McGuffin < MMcguffin@xxxxxxxx > wrote: Hi again, My note in the middle of this discussion seems to have been missed so I’m sending it again.   Here’s what the 2000 (St. Louis) edition of the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature presented to call attention to the formal shift from required to optional use of authors’ names:   “Among the non-mandatory (explanatory or advisory) matter added or modified at St. Louis, let us point out the reworded Art. 46.1, which downgrades author citation after scientific names, from a necessary condition for a name to be ‘accurate and complete’ to a mere complement that ‘may be desirable’, particularly in taxonomic and nomenclatural publications.” I checked the current (2011) edition of the renamed ICN and this same language is still in place.   Our document is not a taxonomic or nomenclatural publication so it seems we could make a decision to refrain from using “L.” in this species name. I agree with Trish though (in a separate email outside of this string) that the main focus should be on consistency: we should pick one and stick to it; though I can also argue, even though use of the author’s name here is not formally a best practice under the ICN, for a slight inconsistency – i.e., call it “ Hydrastis canadensis L.” the first time and “ Hydrastis canadensis ” each additional time.   Michael   Michael McGuffin President American Herbal Products Association www.ahpa.org 8630 Fenton Street, Suite 918 Silver Spring MD 20910 MD Phone: 301.588.1171 x201 CA Phone: 310.745.8401 Please mark your calendar to attend AHPA Events at the Natural Products Expo West show! Annual Breakfast Meeting, Thursday, March 9 th from 7:30 am – Noon Member Reception, Friday, March 10 th from 6 pm – 8 pm Please click on this link for a complete list of all AHPA’s committee meetings.  30+ years of working for you! The information contained in this communication, including attachments, may be confidential and legally privileged and its use is limited to the intended recipient. In addition, this email does not constitute legal advice. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error please advise the sender and delete the original message and all copies from your computer system, including any attachments.   From: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx org ] On Behalf Of Trish Flaster Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 9:21 AM To: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded   one last thought, if we are setting a standard maybe we should use the best practices anyway. Yes it can be more abbreviated on other docuemnts but if this is the standard…..     Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 www.botanicalliaisons.com "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always." — Mathatma Gandh         On Feb 18, 2017, at 7:22 AM, herbal@xxxxxxx wrote:   In addition to Steven's comment, the botanical authority is established in the AHP monograph and the ANSI standard under section 4.1 which establishes the basis of the standard leaving no ambivalence or uncertainty of the identity of the herb in question. The authority need not be included every time the genus and species are given. While this, and often inclusion of the family, may be convention with purely botanical-centric journals, it inserts unnecessary verbage that distracts from ease of reading, while contributing no added clarity of what is being addressed. With goldenseal, no unclarity would exist even if the authority were left out as there is no debate regarding the botanical traceability of H. canadensis.—Roy 4.1 AHP Pharmacopoeial Standard Goldenseal  Root  (ydrastis  canadensis L.):  Goldenseal  root  consists  of  the  fresh  or  dried  roots  and rhizomes  of Hydrastis  canadensis  L.  containing  not  less than  2.0%  hydrastine  (C21H21NO6)  and  2.5%  berberine (C20H18NO4) calculated on a dry weight basis. On Fri Feb 17 21:17:09 2017, Steven D < sjdentali@xxxxxxxxx > wrote: Hi Trish, you are of course correct in that the designation of a species is incomplete and unverifiable without the author. However it is my understanding that convention holds that the binominal without the authority is appropriate and preferred once the authority had been established. Although I am not able to reference the source for this standard at this time I do recall a time when Michael McGuffin provided it. Respectfully, Steven On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Trish Flaster < tflastersprint@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: The correct name of the plant is  Hydrastis canadensis L.  In think it needs to be consistent throughout the standard Sometimes it is listed without the author L. Trish Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 <(303)%20494-1555> www.botanicalliaisons.com "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always." ? Mathatma Gandh On Feb 16, 2017, at 10:45 PM,   herbal@xxxxxxx   wrote: Yes it should be herb.?Roy Upton On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery < susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx > wrote: Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"? 4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted... ?Susan Ulery? Susan H. Ulery, CEO Ph: 970-589-2707 <(970)%20589-2707> www.assureconsulting.us On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider < jsnider@xxxxxxx > wrote: *Submitter's message* Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) < http://standards.nsf.org/ apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ document.php?document_id=36447 > ------------------------------ *Description* NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision < http://standards.nsf.org/ apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ download.php/36447/latest/NSF_ 321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf > ------------------------------ *Submitter*: Jason Snider *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements *Folder*: Standards *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35 *Revision*: 1  


  • 17.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-18-2017 10:50 PM
    Agree with the comment regarding consistency. In my opinion, the formal name with authority should appear on the cover and in the Pharmacopoeial definition and then the rest not for ease of reading. While the authority L. is easy enough to read through, other much longer authority names are not. Unfortunately, I believe these are comments that should have been presented in the previous review process, which was a few years ago, and I am not sure it matters as I believe it was decided to not move forward with this as a ANSI standard. Originally, we were going to put more AHP monographs through the process but decided not to due to the time and difficulty it takes to get through the process.?Roy On Sat Feb 18 09:20:37 2017, Trish Flaster <tflastersprint@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: one last thought, if we are setting a standard maybe we should use the best practices anyway. Yes it can be more abbreviated on other docuemnts but if this is the standard?.. Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 www.botanicalliaisons.com "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always." ? Mathatma Gandh On Feb 18, 2017, at 7:22 AM, herbal@xxxxxxx wrote: In addition to Steven's comment, the botanical authority is established in the AHP monograph and the ANSI standard under section 4.1 which establishes the basis of the standard leaving no ambivalence or uncertainty of the identity of the herb in question. The authority need not be included every time the genus and species are given. While this, and often inclusion of the family, may be convention with purely botanical-centric journals, it inserts unnecessary verbage that distracts from ease of reading, while contributing no added clarity of what is being addressed. With goldenseal, no unclarity would exist even if the authority were left out as there is no debate regarding the botanical traceability of H. canadensis.?Roy 4.1 AHP Pharmacopoeial Standard Goldenseal Root (ydrastis canadensis L.): Goldenseal root consists of the fresh or dried roots and rhizomes of Hydrastis canadensis L. containing not less than 2.0% hydrastine (C21H21NO6) and 2.5% berberine (C20H18NO4) calculated on a dry weight basis. On Fri Feb 17 21:17:09 2017, Steven D <sjdentali@xxxxxxxxx < mailto:sjdentali@xxxxxxxxx >> wrote: Hi Trish, you are of course correct in that the designation of a species is incomplete and unverifiable without the author. However it is my understanding that convention holds that the binominal without the authority is appropriate and preferred once the authority had been established. Although I am not able to reference the source for this standard at this time I do recall a time when Michael McGuffin provided it. Respectfully, Steven On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Trish Flaster <tflastersprint@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: The correct name of the plant is  Hydrastis canadensis L.  In think it needs to be consistent throughout the standard Sometimes it is listed without the author L. Trish Trish Flaster Executive Director Botanical Liaisons, LLC 1180 Crestmoor Drive Boulder, CO 80303 303-494-1555 <(303)%20494-1555> www.botanicalliaisons.com < http://www.botanicalliaisons.com/ > "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always." ? Mathatma Gandh On Feb 16, 2017, at 10:45 PM, herbal@xxxxxxx < mailto:herbal@xxxxxxx > wrote: Yes it should be herb.?Roy Upton On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery <susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx < mailto:susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx >> wrote: Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"? 4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is extracted... ?Susan Ulery? Susan H. Ulery, CEO Ph: 970-589-2707 <(970)%20589-2707> www.assureconsulting.us On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider <jsnider@xxxxxxx> wrote: *Submitter's message* Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document! -- Jason Snider *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ document.php?document_id=36447> ------------------------------ *Description* NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Download Latest Revision < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ download.php/36447/latest/NSF_321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf> ------------------------------ *Submitter*: Jason Snider *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements *Folder*: Standards *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35 *Revision*: 1


  • 18.  RE: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-21-2017 05:52 PM
    Sorry for the late response, but no botanical literature would continue to say  "Hydrastis canadensis L." over and over.  The authority would be given when the  species is first named in the text, and after that only in specific contexts  such as a nomenclature block. -----Original Message----- From: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ mailto:ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of  ; herbal@xxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 4:49 PM To: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis  canadensis) uploaded Agree with the comment regarding consistency. In my opinion, the formal name  with authority should appear on the cover and in the Pharmacopoeial definition  and then the rest not for ease of reading.   While the authority L. is easy enough to read through, other much longer  authority names are not. Unfortunately, I believe these are comments that should have been presented in  the previous review process, which was a few years ago, and I am not sure it  matters as I believe it was decided to not move forward with this as a ANSI  standard. Originally, we were going to put more AHP monographs through the  process but decided not to due to the time and difficulty it takes to get  through the process.-Roy On Sat Feb 18 09:20:37 2017, Trish Flaster <tflastersprint@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >  one last thought, if we are setting a standard maybe we should use    >  the best practices anyway. Yes it can be more abbreviated on other    >  docuemnts but if this is the standard?.. > > >  Trish Flaster >  Executive Director >  Botanical Liaisons, LLC >  1180 Crestmoor Drive >  Boulder, CO 80303 >  303-494-1555 >  www.botanicalliaisons.com > >  "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and    >  murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end,    >  they always fall. Always." >  ? Mathatma Gandh > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 2017, at 7:22 AM, herbal@xxxxxxx wrote: > > > > In addition to Steven's comment, the botanical authority is  > > established in the AHP monograph and the ANSI standard under section  > > 4.1 which establishes the basis of the standard leaving no  > > ambivalence or uncertainty of the identity of the herb in question. > > The authority need not be included every time the genus and species  > > are given. While this, and often inclusion of the family, may be  > > convention with purely botanical-centric journals, it inserts  > > unnecessary verbage that distracts from ease of reading, while  > > contributing no added clarity of what is being addressed. With  > > goldenseal, no unclarity would exist even if the authority were left  > > out as there is no debate regarding the botanical traceability of H.  > > canadensis.-Roy > > > > > > 4.1 > > AHP Pharmacopoeial Standard > > Goldenseal  Root  (ydrastis  canadensis L.):  Goldenseal  root     > > consists  of  the  fresh  or  dried  roots  and rhizomes  of    > > Hydrastis  canadensis  L.  containing  not  less than  2.0%     > > hydrastine  (C21H21NO6)  and  2.5%  berberine (C20H18NO4)    > > calculated on a dry weight basis. > > > > On Fri Feb 17 21:17:09 2017, Steven D <sjdentali@xxxxxxxxx    > > < mailto:sjdentali@xxxxxxxxx >> wrote: > > > >> Hi Trish, you are of course correct in that the designation of a  > >> species is incomplete and unverifiable without the author. However  > >> it is my understanding that convention holds that the binominal  > >> without the authority is appropriate and preferred once the  > >> authority had been established. Although I am not able to reference  > >> the source for this standard at this time I do recall a time when Michael  > >> McGuffin provided it. > >> Respectfully, Steven > >> > >> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Trish Flaster    > >> <tflastersprint@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>> wrote: > >> > >>> The correct name of the plant is  Hydrastis canadensis L.  In think  > >>> it needs to be consistent throughout the standard > >>> > >>> Sometimes it is listed without the author L. > >>> > >>> Trish > >>> Trish Flaster > >>> Executive Director > >>> Botanical Liaisons, LLC > >>> 1180 Crestmoor Drive > >>> Boulder, CO 80303 > >>> 303-494-1555 <(303)%20494-1555> > >>> www.botanicalliaisons.com < http://www.botanicalliaisons.com/ > > >>> > >>> "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and  > >>> murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they  > >>> always fall. > >>> Always." > >>> ? Mathatma Gandh > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Feb 16, 2017, at 10:45 PM, herbal@xxxxxxx    > >>> < mailto:herbal@xxxxxxx > wrote: > >>> > >>> Yes it should be herb.?Roy Upton > >>> > >>> On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery <susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx    > >>> < mailto:susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug"  > >>> to describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"? > >>> > >>> > >>> 4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is  > >>> extracted... > >>> > >>> ?Susan Ulery? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Susan H. Ulery, CEO > >>> Ph: 970-589-2707 <(970)%20589-2707> www.assureconsulting.us > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider <jsnider@xxxxxxx> wrote: > >>> > >>> *Submitter's message* > >>> Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees > >>> will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the    > >>> link below. > >>> Thank you for your contributions to this document! > >>> -- Jason Snider > >>> *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) > >>> < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ > >>> document.php?document_id=36447> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> *Description* > >>> NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) > >>> Download Latest Revision > >>> < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/ > >>> download.php/36447/latest/NSF_321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> *Submitter*: Jason Snider > >>> *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements > >>> *Folder*: Standards > >>> *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35 > >>> *Revision*: 1 > >


  • 19.  RE: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-20-2017 01:18 PM




    Thank you Trish. Would you like to be on the TG that is going to be reviewing the standard?
     
    Thank you,
    Rachel

     


    From: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
    On Behalf Of Trish Flaster
    Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 11:28 PM
    Cc: ds_jc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded


     
    The correct name of the plant is  Hydrastis canadensis L.  In think it needs to be consistent throughout the standard

     


    Sometimes it is listed without the author L.


     


    Trish











    Trish Flaster
    Executive Director
    Botanical Liaisons, LLC
    1180 Crestmoor Drive
    Boulder, CO 80303
    303-494-1555
    www.botanicalliaisons.com


    "Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always."
    — Mathatma Gandh








     

     

     

     



    On Feb 16, 2017, at 10:45 PM,
    herbal@xxxxxxx wrote:

     

    Yes it should be herb.—Roy Upton

    On Thu Feb 16 10:07:28 2017, Susan Ulery < susan.ulery@xxxxxxxxx > wrote:




    Hi Jason, Thanks for sending this.  I noted in 4.2.1 use of "drug" to
    describe goldenseal, but shouldn't that be "herb"?


    4.2.1 Sample preparation In a test tube, 0.25 g of powdered drug is
    extracted...

    ?Susan Ulery?



    Susan H. Ulery, CEO
    Ph: 970-589-2707
    www.assureconsulting.us



    On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Jason Snider < jsnider@xxxxxxx > wrote:




    *Submitter's message*
    Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees
    will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below.
    Thank you for your contributions to this document!
    -- Jason Snider
    *Document Name*: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis)
    < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/document.php?document_id=36447 >
    ------------------------------
    *Description*
    NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis)
    Download Latest Revision
    < http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/download.php/36447/latest/NSF_321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf >
    ------------------------------
    *Submitter*: Jason Snider
    *Group*: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements
    *Folder*: Standards
    *Date submitted*: 2017-02-16 09:59:35
    *Revision*: 1





     







  • 20.  Re: [ds_jc] Groups - NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) uploaded

    Posted 02-17-2017 05:55 AM
    Actually, "powdered root" would be most appropriate.?Roy Upton On Thu Feb 16 09:59:59 2017, Jason Snider <jsnider@xxxxxxx> wrote: Submitter's message Please note that this new document has just been published. NSF employees will be able to view this document in AESOP; others can use the link below. Thank you for your contributions to this document!          -- Jason Snider          ----------------- Document Name: NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) Description NSF/ANSI 321-2016: Goldenseal Root (Hydrastis canadensis) View Details: http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/document.php?document_id=36447 Download Latest Revision: http://standards.nsf.org/apps/org/workgroup/ds_jc/download.php/36447/latest/NSF_321-2016%20-%20watermarked.pdf ----------------- Submitter: Jason Snider Group: Joint Committee on Dietary Supplements Folder: Standards Date submitted: 2017-02-16 09:59:35 -----------------